What Comes After Awakening? Loch Kelly on Flow States

Emily Johnson · 2026-09-15

Ever had a moment where everything just clicked? Maybe you were walking, or listening to music, or simply sitting still—and suddenly, the noise in your head went quiet. That's often called a "glimpse." But what happens after that? That's the question host Michael Taft explores with meditation teacher Loch Kelly in a conversation that digs into the space beyond the first taste of awakening. ### Waking Up vs. Waking With Most of us have heard the phrase "waking up." In meditation circles, it usually means recognizing openness, stillness, and the absence of a separate self. It's that first realization that you're not your thoughts. Powerful stuff. But Loch Kelly introduces another layer: "waking with." This is where appearances—everything you see, hear, and feel—are seen as inseparable from awake awareness. It's sometimes called "one taste." Instead of transcending the world, you're right in it, and the world itself is the awakening. Think of it like this: waking up is realizing you were dreaming. Waking with is realizing the dream and the dreamer are the same thing. Both matter. But they're not the same. ### Why Flow States Matter The conversation also dives into flow states—those moments when you're so absorbed in what you're doing that time disappears. Athletes call it "being in the zone." Artists call it inspiration. Meditators might call it presence. Loch and Michael explore how flow states relate to awakening. Are they the same? Not exactly. Flow can be a doorway, but it's not the whole house. You can be in flow and still not recognize the deeper openness underneath. > "Flow is beautiful, but it's temporary. Awake awareness is always here." That quote stuck with me. Flow comes and goes. But the awareness that notices flow? That's the constant. ### What This Means for Your Practice If you're a mindfulness professional—or just someone curious about meditation—this conversation offers practical insight. Here's what you can take away: - **Don't chase flow.** Let it come and go. It's a signpost, not the destination. - **Notice the ordinary.** Waking with isn't about special states. It's about seeing the sacred in the mundane. - **Ask better questions.** Instead of "How do I stay in flow?" try "Who is aware of this flow?" Loch Kelly is known for his gentle, accessible approach to awakening. He doesn't promise fireworks. He points to what's already here. And that's refreshing. ### The Bottom Line Awakening isn't a one-time event. It's a deepening. The first glimpse is just the beginning. What follows is a life lived from—and as—awareness itself. Flow states can support that, but they're not the goal. If you're ready to explore what comes after the first glimpse, this episode is worth your time. It won't give you a formula. But it might just point you back to what you already are.