What Comes After Awakening? Loch Kelly on Flow States

Evelyn Reed · 2026-09-15

You've had a glimpse. Maybe it came during meditation, a walk in the woods, or a moment of deep connection. Everything felt open, still, and strangely perfect. And then... it faded. So what now? That's exactly what meditation teacher Loch Kelly explores in a recent conversation with host Michael Taft. And their discussion might just change how you think about your practice. ### Waking Up vs. Waking With: The Key Difference Most of us are familiar with the idea of "waking up"—that first recognition of openness, stillness, and the absence of a separate self. It's a profound shift. But according to Kelly, that's only half the story. The real transformation comes from what he calls "waking with." > "Waking up is recognizing the sky. Waking with is realizing the clouds are made of the same stuff." In other words, it's not just about transcending appearances. It's about seeing them as inseparable from awake awareness—what some traditions call "one taste." The ordinary and the sacred stop feeling like two different things. ### Flow States: Where Awake Awareness Meets Action Kelly and Taft also dig into flow states—those moments when you're so absorbed in what you're doing that time seems to vanish. You know the feeling: writing, playing music, running, even washing dishes. Everything clicks. But here's the twist: flow states aren't just peak experiences. They can become a doorway to living from awake awareness all the time. - **Flow as practice:** Instead of chasing flow, you learn to recognize the awareness that's already there beneath the activity. - **Everyday awakening:** The goal isn't to stay in flow forever. It's to bring that same openness to boredom, frustration, and laundry. - **One taste in action:** When you see appearances as not separate from awareness, even a traffic jam can feel like part of the whole. ### Why This Matters for Your Daily Life If you're a mindful living professional—a coach, therapist, teacher, or just someone who cares deeply about well-being—this conversation is gold. It moves beyond basic mindfulness and into the subtle territory of post-awakening practice. You'll learn how to help clients (and yourself) navigate the messy, beautiful reality that follows a glimpse. No more chasing peak experiences. Instead, you start living from the awareness that never left. So next time you catch yourself waiting for the next big insight, remember: the real magic might be in the ordinary moments you're overlooking. Waking with is where the rubber meets the road. *Listen to the full episode for more gems from Loch Kelly and Michael Taft.*